Author Topic: Why making songs with english when they are sung in engrish? (Read 739 times)

brunoais · « **on:** March 07, 2014, 02:56:25 PM »

One of the main things I've been noticing is that the more recent a song is (specially if it is featured in an anime), the increased amount of english it will have. This is a tendency and definitely, not a rule but it seems true.
According to other people's opinion I gathered in places like yahoo answers, MAL forums, anidb forums and other anime-related communities:
Writing songs with english is normal according to human psychology for the current japanese situation. As Japanese are being forced to learn english in school, so song writers started including english in their songs. Besides, english is considered cool in Japan.

Now back to my question that requires discussion:
Why do they write songs in english when the singers are going to sing in engrish?
OR
Why do they hire a singer that sings in engrish for a song that contains english parts (or is in english)?

xfreidax · « **Reply #1 on:** March 07, 2014, 03:12:32 PM »

Why do they write songs in english when the singers are going to sing in engrish?

Because they don't really care that it's engrish. It 'd probably take them 5 mins to walk out of the office to find a random gaijin who speaks English to proof their lyrics. Yet any English used in their songs is most of the time grammatically off. They simply don't care if it's wrong or sung in engrish.

OR

Why do they hire a singer that sings in engrish for a song that contains english parts (or is in english)?

See above.

chiefkeef300 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2014, 03:54:39 PM »

Have you ever heard about gentleman in my avatar?

Reason is solely entertaining ( might be for artistic reason, like when they're saying "is you" etc) .
It's not really disturbing since most Japanese can't talk (correct me if I'm wrong) ... and even if .. it's not a big deal or is it?

jinhong91 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2014, 04:01:13 PM »

As long as it sounds foreign.

brunoais · « **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2014, 04:10:56 PM »

Quote from: chiefkeef300 on March 07, 2014, 03:54:39 PM

It's not really disturbing since most Japanese can't talk (correct me if I'm wrong) ... and even if .. it's not a big deal or is it?

Most older japanese can't speak anything besides japanese and only a small subset of seyuu know english. One the other hand, most japanese in the scientific realm know how to speak english quite well even though they have a japanese accent but that's not bad! Having an accent is perfectly ok with me but engrish is not an accept, it's just plain english spoken in japanese.
If you want an example of what I mean about english with an accent:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouPHOwST0Ok
I think that that's perfectly ok, specially if the character is japanese and went overseas.
There's a song where that character sings some parts in english (not english) and I'm perfectly fine with that even if she keeps some grammar errors and some japanese accent. I was unable to find it on youtube.

Why not keeping the english to who knows it at the right degree?
Native UK character -> London (or any other UK accent)
Native USA/Canada character -> Correct accent for the location
Japanese person -> English with japanese accent (accent degree varies depending on the character but definitely no engrish!)
Songs -> english, any accent goes. If most of the song is in japanese, I tend to prefer english with japanese accent.

That's my opinion...

Quote from: jinhong91 on March 07, 2014, 04:01:13 PM

As long as it sounds foreign.

I didn't really understand what you mean when invoking that link... Please be more specific...

chiefkeef300 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2014, 04:36:06 PM »

Maybe they're sure it's correct grammar or they don't want to hire bilingual (because of budget? ).

Bob2004 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2014, 05:10:43 PM »

The same reason if you walk into any clothes shop in Japan you will find loads and loads of shirts with English catchphrases, words, sentences, etc, which make absolutely no sense whatsoever. They don't care if it;s correct or not, it's just cool to use English. Nothing more to it than that.

AceHigh · « **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2014, 05:23:19 PM »

Quote from: brunoais on March 07, 2014, 04:10:56 PM

I didn't really understand what you mean when invoking that link... Please be more specific...

It means that whatever effect you want to have on people with foreign language, it is the same whether it is pronounced correctly or not. After all it's only the speaker of those foreign languages that will cringe in agony when hearing their native tongue is slaughtered.

Hell, you can speak pig latin instead of learning proper one, and it will sound cool and fancy to people.

surdumil · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2014, 05:42:33 PM »

Since the target audience is mostly assured to be Japanese, I think that you'd have to discuss the issue with native Japanese residents to figure this out.
I haven't a clue why particular English phases are included in the Maze OP for example, but some members of the target audience would be able to give impressions and insight into what's going on.

I think there are quotes somewhere from Michael Palin who spoke about how he found that in Japan, English words are borrowed and pasted together to make phrases that sound absolutely batty to native English speakers, but make far more sense to native Japanese speakers.

AceHigh · « **Reply #9 on:** March 07, 2014, 06:02:04 PM »

Yeah, notice how OP for a high school romance anime has chipmunk jpop, while OP for series like Black Lagoon and Jormungand are sung in engrish? Yeah, it has probably something to do with the mood they set you up for.

Mistgun_Zero · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2014, 06:03:45 PM »

Just for the record, I have net some of my dads collegue (from other companies) who are Japanese and they speak perfect English and no Engrish at all.

Now, a song is always attributed to its singer. If linkin park writes a song, and green day sings it, it's gonna be a green day song and not linkin parks. (Even of it is shown in credits or the whole profits go to them).

Kalafina is a band made by Kajiura, but the credits still go to kalafina for the songs. Basically, what I am trying to say is the main singer is the one supposed to be singing the lyrics, whether he can sing it or not. If you get a random guy to sing that line for you, what exactly is the reason for the original singer to exist.

And for the record, one ok rock, band which uses a lot of English words in their songs. At first they quite sucked at it, but now they are pretty good.

Bottom line, they are in very early stages of using English and of course can't pronounce it right. Hell, I am sure most of them didn't even speak English before in their life (well maybe in school, but seriously how good is your second language especially the one which you didn't want to learn??)

They don't sing Engrish because they want to, it's just that they can't sing English. YET.

brunoais · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2014, 06:30:44 PM »

Yes but... Why choosing engrish (singers) and not english (singers)? (I mean, in speaking capabilities, not nationality)

BTW, My english is unlike any of the native english speakers. My pronunciation suffers from lack of usage in my daily life but it is quite understandable and when I use it people understand it. I believe that it is english with a mix of american texanish australian British - ish with a portuguese accent.

I have no trouble with that if people would come to me ans speak in a mix of Brazilian-angolan Açores -ish portuguese. It's hard to speak in portuguese for someone that never dealt with the language but it's fine as it is not reading portuguese words in their native language.
I already have had colleges that would read english texts as if they were written in portuguese (same as the engrish thing). It was aWful.

SchoolDaysEX · « **Reply #12 on:** March 07, 2014, 11:50:54 PM »

I agree with OP, I dislike English songs in anime in general. I don't mind it if it is just a small phrase, like Aria the Animation ED.
Just my opinion but I couldn't bear Danganronpa OP and Higurashi ED.

megido-rev.M · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2014, 02:34:51 AM »

This thread reminds me of the half-broken English in all those OPs/EDs by ALTIMA.

jevitsj · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2014, 05:31:19 AM »

I don't mind, sometimes it's really terrible but mostly it's ok for me, not that I'm a native English speaker so that probably contributes to not caring so much. Although I would like to see someone who can actually sing or speak in English if there are English parts in the song.

jinhong91 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 08, 2014, 06:34:55 AM »

I think they get anyone who can sing well enough to sing even if the singer is not good enough to sing in English.
Their core audience are not that good enough in English to tell the significance of the proper English.
Sounds cool even though its horribly butchered.

The same thing with American trying to speak Japanese. There are some that are fluent but most of them butcher it.
And then there are those who spout random Japanese. Same analogy I guess, they think it sounds cool.

As long as it sounds foreign, its cool even if it is horribly butchered in its native tongue.
The link I gave has some example of that.

Tompior · « **Reply #16 on:** March 08, 2014, 08:24:37 AM »

They simply don't care

brunoais · « **Reply #17 on:** March 08, 2014, 09:22:46 AM »

Quote from: SchoolDaysEX on March 07, 2014, 11:50:54 PM

I agree with OP, I dislike English songs in anime in general. I don't mind it if it is just a small phrase, like Aria the Animation ED.
Just my opinion but I couldn't bear Danganronpa OP and Higurashi ED.

I dislike engrish songs in anime, not english. I basically dislike most engrish in anime, to be honest...

Quote from: megido-rev.M on March 08, 2014, 02:34:51 AM

This thread reminds me of the half-broken English in all those OPs/EDs by ALTIMA.

That's part of my hate!

Quote from: jinhong91 on March 08, 2014, 06:34:55 AM

As long as it sounds foreign, its cool even if it is horribly butchered in its native tongue.
The link I gave has some example of that.

Personally I butcher a lot when I see english shout out in portuguese programs. They have the huge tendency of building sentences in a much worse way than I do and too many speak in a broken english accent. Here's one I'm ashamed of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MND0XT0WVJ4 (note: the text underneath is just complaining and pointing out about his bad english)
He used to be our prime minister and he's proud to have a degree in technical english.
On the other hand we have our representative in the EU (who does not consider himself a good english speaker but he tries hard):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N53IfS_hxis

The 1st one is at the same level as the engrish except it's not while reading a script and it's in inglish, not english. The 2nd one has english with portuguese accent with is perfectly fine for me. I can understand him and the automatic captions can also understand him.

When I mean about It's ok to have foreign as long as it is correctly done I mean this:
http://indavideo.hu/video/MLaaTR_Season_1_Episode_10_Speak_No_Evil
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouPHOwST0Ok -> not perfectly spoken english makes sense in the context and I mean that both characters that speak english in that clip speak correctly towards what I mean and I think it should be.

Actually, in both series, it is a big bonus to have something like that!

On the other hand, having the

Quote from: jinhong91 on March 07, 2014, 04:01:13 PM

As long as it sounds foreign.

, for me, has mixed views.
If it is meant for the laughs, like the muppet show, it is well done specially by the sheer amount of times it is correctly Lampshaded here and there in some episodes and it's part of the joke of the character to have him speaking in broken sweedish<->english.
I don't remember any other situation that that still holds true.

That's my opinion. Do you agree?

Shohei-kun · « **Reply #18 on:** March 08, 2014, 10:19:30 PM »

Notice that it isn't just the songs that have an increased amount of English. Many slice of life shows have the main characters spouting out English phrases left and right, and the amount of phrases only increases with each passing season. It probably has to do with a cultural shift in Japan where, as you mentioned in your post, English may be gaining popularity. Note that many Japanese people can't actually understand clean English accents very well, so Engrish may actually be helpful in helping the listeners understand. There are exceptions to the rule where they get bilingual singers to sing their songs; Aoki Hagane is an example where we have Nano singing Savior of Song.

Mistgun_Zero · « **Reply #19 on:** March 09, 2014, 02:34:15 AM »

Quote

Yes but... Why choosing engrish (singers) and not english (singers)? (I mean, in speaking capabilities, not nationality)

Cause they are pretty few of them in jap music industry. One ok rock is only one I know who actually sing english good, and that too currently.

Not to mention there various reasons like contracts and preference which don't allow them to contract anyone you want.

Don't worry, the Engrish will eventually cone down, but it's gonna take some time.