Author Topic: The west and capitalism  (Read 2210 times)

Offline Fool010

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #120 on: May 27, 2014, 07:34:33 PM »
The two concepts are sign post, pointing into a direction, neither have been explicitly defined for good reasons. To start using them as labels to categorise people is ignorance.

Problem is, post-modernism points nowhere. It's a sign that says "not this way", this is not something you can build upon. Deconstruction is all fine and dandy, but serves absolutely no purpose without knowing what to build in place. That's the whole problem, being not "explicitely defined" is just another wording for void. That's just a convenient way to stuff in whatever fits you, considering it a fraud wouldn't be that far-fetched.

"Post-modernist" is a pretty misleading tag, it should rather read "The Big Nothing".
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 07:57:12 PM by Fool010 »
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Offline Nikkoru

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #121 on: May 27, 2014, 08:15:31 PM »
That's not entirely true. Post-modernist reject the notion of a grand single narrative of society that everyone must follow, for examples; science is the future, Islam is a terrorist religion, western societies are superior to the rest of the world due to it's technological advancements, there's no solution to the debt crisis so we must believe our leaders and accept recession, we need petrol to survive and it's important for us to function as a society and we don't have an alternative. All these narratives commit fallacies of orientalism that modernist suffer from.

Basically modernist get swept with the times and contemporary ideas and beliefs, they are heavily influenced by media outlets and corporate elitists. They don't have good understanding of truisms.

Post-modernist see the answers in not just modernity but in the past history, culture and religion. To say we reject objective reality is not entirely true. Subjectivity is just given more respect.


Um... your very discourse is antithetical to your stated position. It's all rather clumsy post-colonial rhetoric, not post-modernism. Abandoning all meta-narratives, including your faith, into a realm of relativism and non-identity is post-modernism, you're just disaffected with Western Civilization but lack the cogent understanding of the critical philosophy your representing and thus claim the null position erroneously.

Also modernism doesn't have anything to do with corporate elites, it's the evolution of the Enlightenment philosophies, one that expressed less certitude on the absolute nature of human consciousness - the Enlightenment's core value.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 10:46:48 PM by Nikkoru »
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Offline Burkingam

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #122 on: May 27, 2014, 09:09:29 PM »
(click to show/hide)
aw and he might never read your post :(

Right, so because I'm bored of this shit, and Osmo has gone too far this time in baiting me, he's getting a 4 month forum ban. It'd be longer but what can I say? I'm a nice guy!

Well, I guess that's the end of this thread.
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Offline Mimishiki19

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #123 on: May 27, 2014, 09:36:59 PM »
Can I get in on this?Quote his post knowing he can't reply is the best.


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Offline Burkingam

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #124 on: May 27, 2014, 09:39:13 PM »
Can I get in on this?Quote his post knowing he can't reply is the best.
Why would you need a permission for that. If it amuses you, you are free.
Spacetime tells matter how to move and matter tells spacetime how to curve.

Offline Nikkoru

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #125 on: May 27, 2014, 11:21:49 PM »
I thought Osmo was a troll at first, his annoyingly broad questions formulated in his many, many threads felt so tepid and pointless at the end of the day. They seemed like reasonable topics but they're so ambiguous or unstructured that you could literally write gibberish for the opening post and yield the same results. Over time I came to realize he's just bleh.

There'a a lot of bleh on the internet. Ya'know, the posts you skip over because there's nothing there really worth reading - lacking any entertainment, information, or emotional resonance - but people respond to it anyways because they seem to think it's worth while, can't help themselves, or are just so damned bored that the other options at the moment actually seem more tedious. I try not to, I used to, but not anymore.

He's like those bots that are a nuisance on other forums, which create threads that have titles that seem somehow interesting but are just full of non sequitur sentence fragments and adware infested links.

Anywho~



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Offline Burkingam

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #126 on: May 27, 2014, 11:57:04 PM »
I noticed that he doesn't seam to understand the concept of an argument.
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Offline SeventyX7

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #127 on: May 28, 2014, 12:22:39 AM »
He was a person perpetually on the defensive against anything and everything.  It was impossible to have a meaningful discussion with him because of that.

Also 99% of the things he said were batshit crazy.   :whistle:

Offline Ixarku

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #128 on: May 28, 2014, 02:01:45 AM »
Also 99% of the things he said were batshit crazy.   :whistle:

Yeah, I kind of got that impression, too.  At first, I just figured he had a different perspective, different life experiences from most people, but when he did have something of substance to say, I couldn't relate to it.  The rest of the time, there were a lot of words but not a lot of coherent thought.  Kind of like Jaybug, but the difference is, Jaybug and I have a very similar sense of humor and as off the wall as he is, Jay is one of the few people from BBT who I'd actually hang out with and have a beer.
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Offline Nikkoru

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #129 on: May 28, 2014, 03:36:51 AM »
Osmo says stuff that makes sense to one degree or another, but he lacks a sense of self-awareness and comes off as feckless and oddly... judgmental. Which is plain as day when he posts a bajillion threads asking introspective questions.

How should I put this, it's like the Emperor in Andersen's The Emperor's New Clothes constantly bringing up haute couture and getting really prickly when you don't agree with him. Such a conversation is just silly.

Jaybug on the other hand starts from his conclusions and works backwards, when arguments don't go his way he starts to squirm his way around them with more confusing rhetoric he pulls out of nowhere or just general nonsense/wackiness. It's like arguing with a slippery pig wearing bunny ears.

I'm feeling completely snobby today!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 03:40:55 AM by Nikkoru »
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Offline Ixarku

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #130 on: May 28, 2014, 09:27:19 AM »
Well, we're all judgmental to some degree or another.  With some people, it's a little easier to follow the line of logic even if you don't agree with their conclusions.  But I do think you're on to something there, Nik.
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Offline Fool010

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #131 on: May 28, 2014, 10:20:54 AM »
This thread demonstrates what happens when a common moralist tries to puff up his cause by picking up bits and pieces from other philosophical currents. It painfully reminds me why I gave up on philosophy.
Rejecting opinions you don't agree with is acceptable, having no opinion of your own to put in perspective isn't. It leads to the shitstorm that has been going on here with an OP who doesn't want a discussion, but only seeks a tribune to shoot down (with only very moderate success) dissenters. After all, all he ever did when confronted to contradiction was to shout "I DON'T BELIEVE YOU", while safely staying away from postulating anything by himself, if you except some basic moral generalities.

Observing others and judging them should be the second step in any philosophy, the first one should always be observing and judging yourself. Opposition for the sake of going against the tide is a waste of time for anyone involved.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 10:40:03 AM by Fool010 »
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Offline Burkingam

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #132 on: May 28, 2014, 03:59:21 PM »
What I think is that it was just his attempt to justify his Muslim beliefs. There is really not a lot of ways that you can think about Muslim beliefs in a rational way and so he was rejecting rationalism in general. His superficial understanding of postmodernism were probably good enough that he understand that it undermines rationalism but not good enough to understand that it also undermines Islam.

It also perfectly explains his crazy opposition to western culture. I don't shy away from criticizing western culture but arguing that Americans are responsible for every problems in the world is completely lunatic. If course, when someone takes this stance, it's hard to argue them out of it because Americans do touch about everything in the world and so yeah if you dig enough you can always find a relation with them, kinda how water is also related to every problems in the world.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 04:03:18 PM by Burkingam »
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Offline Fool010

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #133 on: May 28, 2014, 04:58:43 PM »
I don't shy away from criticizing western culture but arguing that Americans are responsible for every problems in the world is completely lunatic. If course, when someone takes this stance, it's hard to argue them out of it because Americans do touch about everything in the world and so yeah if you dig enough you can always find a relation with them, kinda how water is also related to every problems in the world.

You got it all wrong, american water is the root of all evil.
There's no one in the world I'm interested in surpassing, excepted for myself.

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Offline Burkingam

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #134 on: May 28, 2014, 05:02:56 PM »
You got it all wrong, american water is the root of all evil.
OH! It all makes sense now.
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Offline Nikkoru

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #135 on: May 28, 2014, 05:30:50 PM »
Well, we're all judgmental to some degree or another.  With some people, it's a little easier to follow the line of logic even if you don't agree with their conclusions.  But I do think you're on to something there, Nik.

When you or I are judgmental it's because we stand for something, there is something in relation to us and our core beliefs/ethics/perspective which we find ourselves at odds with in others. When someone thinks they're a post-modernist but doesn't actually understand post-modernist critique or where they stand in general, it's silly. it's like a homeopath criticizing an epidemiological review for its lack of soulfulness, all you can do is shrug and wonder what tomorrow's weather will be like.

Mostly cloudy, by the way.
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Offline Ixarku

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #136 on: May 28, 2014, 09:00:11 PM »
I don't shy away from criticizing western culture but arguing that Americans are responsible for every problems in the world is completely lunatic.

Burk, thank you!  I'm glad to see somebody else say this for once.  I was beginning to think I was the only person that believed this.  I was starting to wonder if I was the crazy person.



And @Nik, if you were to go into politics, I would vote for you if I could.  Except that, by going into politics, you would probably be forced to become something we'd both hate, and then I wouldn't want to vote for you after all.  But the sentiment is there, for what it's worth.
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Offline SeventyX7

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #137 on: May 28, 2014, 09:47:42 PM »
To be fair, Americans were the ones to start bottling water and that is both crazy and evil.   :whistle:

Offline RayIII

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #138 on: May 28, 2014, 10:09:08 PM »
America has many faults, but so does any country. What I hate the most about the politics here in germany is the hypocrisy. We like to criticise everybody, but are partly responsible for the mess. Example: We like to criticise america and other countrys like russia for their wars, but a huge chunk of our national output is due to weaponexport. It's a joke really and nobody talks about it.

Offline SeventyX7

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Re: The west and capitalism
« Reply #139 on: May 28, 2014, 10:10:42 PM »
Contradiciton in words and beliefs has more to do with human nature than politics.

People just don't like to admit they have inconsistent beliefs.