Independent Scotland Discussion.

[AceHigh]

Well, weak willed people who are born to be underdogs don't deserve their own independence. With such resolve it's better if the English keep taking care of them. I guess I was expecting too much from them.

Looks like the country is inhabited by (mostly) sensible people who aren't blinded by a romanticised "be a patriot" campaign with no substance and answers to the hard questions. Well done Scotland, and they should be proud of an 88% turnout rate. That's really crazy.

It's not a "country", it's a "region". Just like Basque, Catalonia, Wales, Bavaria and all other assimilated nationalities. BTW Norway was also once in a "sensible union" with Sweden. Now we are oil rich and Sweden is just another EU protectorate. Union is not always a good thing.

[resilientz]

Union is a great thing until you have solid answers and a rock hard foundation and plan on how you'll proceed once you have your independence.

As it stood the SNP wanted to make a rash decision without anything in place IF said independence happened....Scotlan d would have zero impact on rUK votes, proposed a currency union (that the rest of the UK never agreed to or discussed) and stood to lose almost all their existing banks and heavy business to south of the border, this point alone nullifies the promise of more jobs. NHS funding loss, EU membership loss...I don't really want to write a book but the list of uncertainties goes on.

Yeah, they'd get to keep their North Sea oil and choose their own parliament but it's ridiculous to base your campaign on empty proposals that should have been laid out beforehand. Only then can you remotely believe that Independence is a good thing and support it. This campaign was ridiculous, doomed and deserved the definitive rejection it got.

[AceHigh]

Almost never in mankind's history has a region been able to peacefully separate from another. Thus most countries started their independence from bloodshed and war. Any plan or lack of plan Scotland had now was better than what most current countries started off with.

Ha! Scotland itself rose from the ashes of the Pictish confederation which was annihilated by... hehehehehe... vikings. Think they had good economic plan back then?

[Tanis]

I wish them the best of luck.

With the assholes the UK has been electing, and the way they've been treated over the years...

I'm AMAZED that they haven't done it before.

[AceHigh]

Actually it's over, they chose being English. 

[resilientz]

Even if they won "independence", they'd still be beholden to England under the referendum, that's the point why it was a total shit campaign. You cannot claim to be done with Westminster and the UK's inequality then turn around and say "by the way we'll still be using the Bank of England for our currency". Hypocrisy much? England would directly control taxes, interest rates, debt, the list goes on.

They didn't vote to be English, they voted to shoot down a half-assed campaign based off passion and a call to patriotism that offered no quality of life improvement and invited more problems than it fixed. Besides, Westminster gave Scotland their own parliament a decade ago, with many powers to make change, and they've done very little with it.

Independence is a dream for many Scots, Northern Irish, Welsh etc....the problem is the politicians who push for such change are often not offering better solutions than staying in the Union (Or in SNP's case, threaten to bring the country back to the dark ages after barely getting over a massive recession in the first place).

[AceHigh]

Even if they won "independence", they'd still be beholden to England under the referendum, that's the point why it was a total shit campaign. You cannot claim to be done with Westminster and the UK's inequality then turn around and say "by the way we'll still be using the Bank of England for our currency". Hypocrisy much? England would directly control taxes, interest rates, debt, the list goes on.

I actually use this argument to point out how EU members who use Euro are not real sovereign countries at all, so I will agree with that one. Still even with common currency Scotland would have gotten their own foreign policy and military. They would collect their own taxes, all the stuff that real countries do.

But hey for every loser there is a winner. Today the English are the winners, so let's toast for their strength to dominate the lesser nations!

[RayIII]

As Makoto Shishio said "The strong eat the weak".

[Burkingam]

Quebecois separatists tend to empathise with scottish separatists and so many of my friends this morning woke up very sad.

[Tiffanys]

Well, I'd say induct the UK into the US but honestly I prefer the UK's government. They get national referendums, universal healthcare, and they have a Queen.

[AceHigh]

Pfft! You can't even grab Greenland from Denmark! 

[Nikkoru]

Damn Scots! They ruined Scotland!

[AceHigh]

Hahahaha! I remember that one!

[Bob2004]

Ironically enough, it's far from certain that Scotland even has very much oil. Thatcher sold off most of the most promising sites in the 80s for cheap (to Norway mostly, I think), and much of the rest is in international waters so it would have been very dubious whether the rights would have gone to Scotland or stayed with the UK.

Added to Mr Salmond's general arrogance, his constant insulting of everyone who disagreed with him, and blatant lies he kept telling about issues such as a currency union with the UK and whether or not Scotland could join the EU, and it's no wonder he lost. That said, hats off to him all the same - considering where he started from, he did a hell of a job getting to where he did. If he hadn't got complacent and fallen apart so badly in the last few weeks, he might even have managed to win that yes vote.

[Mimishiki19]

I'm suspecting vote fraud to the highest degree.Scotts hate the English and all this talk of oil, currency and whatnot is trumped by simple human logic. I hate them so fuckem even if I get fucked in the process.

[Bob2004]

I'm suspecting vote fraud to the highest degree.Scotts hate the English and all this talk of oil, currency and whatnot is trumped by simple human logic. I hate them so fuckem even if I get fucked in the process.

Vote fraud? Why? It's pretty much exactly the result everyone was expecting. Slightly lower turnout than predicted, but other than that, it's exactly as every poll suggested it would be.

[CVF]

I'm actually kinda torn on this one. On the one hand, the British are fantastic allies, and we share very deep cultural and historical roots with them... barring some ridiculous change in policies, it seems unlikely our friendliness toward each other will change any time soon. Hell, they even came with us into Iraq in 2003, when the rest of the world told us to get fucked. So from that angle, I'd hate to see the British position in the world weakened. I feel like we'd have a pretty friendly attitude toward an independent Scotland as well, citing those same roots we share. But on the other hand, London is going to have to pull their heads out of their asses, lest they face this thing again. The problem with British politics is the Prime minister and his people are in power until they decide to leave, effectively (or they no longer "command the respect" of the House of Commons.). If someone was able to hold power for 20 years, they could stay there that long, legally, so the Scots don't have the guaranteed option of just waiting it out as we do. I seriously hope London changes their tune for the foreseeable future.

[TheRancid]

I may be misunderstanding you CVF but we have elections just like you do in America, the Prime Minister can't stay in office for more than 5 years without an election. By "Commanding the Respect" of the house of commons, they mean having the majority of seats in the House of Commons, seats are voted for by the public. Although technically someone could stay in office for 20 years (and from 1721 to 1741, Sir Robert Walpole did); it's not like people are powerless to stop them and have to wait for them to leave.

EDIT: Also while I'm making a post about Prime Ministers, Gordon Brown did an excellent speech for the No Campaign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J39bBV7CBJk

[jaybug]

Ace, why would WE want Greenland? Be cool if someone found oil under the ice. To get the oil you need to remove the ice. Lols aplenty there, eh boyo?

I didn't know you were a Freddy Mercury fan Tiffs. He's still dead by the way.

Rancid, must be the only thing Mr. Brown did that was excellent. He must be a lot like Jimmy Carter. Crap in office, better out of it.

[mgz]

Well, I'd say induct the UK into the US but honestly I prefer the UK's government. They get national referendums, universal healthcare, and they have a Queen.

you also get arrested for being mean on the internet