Discussion Forums > The Lounge
Learning Japanese
iindigo:
One thing that I noticed about rewatching anime without subs is that you get to see a lot more of the art. It's really quite surprising how much of it you miss when reading subs.
So there's another reason rewatching anime with the purpose of immersion wouldn't really be boring. You're going to see and notice things that you didn't in the first run.
virionspiral:
--- Quote from: anerph on May 23, 2009, 12:01:14 AM ---
--- Quote from: yellowtable on May 22, 2009, 10:53:44 PM ---If you went all out, watching Japanese, unsubbed anime 24/7, then you could pick it up. After years, of course. However, most people don't spend anywhere this much time being immersed in Japanese, and using subs is basically the same as listening to english audio.
But if you do get a good feel for the grammar first, examining individual sentences, then watching unsubbed, jap audio anime really helps you.
--- End quote ---
I find that hard to believe...or at least, the first part you said. Imagine not knowing any English, being shoved into America, or more specifically, a small town in America where no one speaks any language that you understand. The only way they have to convey things to you is through body language and pictures (which was the first human language anyways). You would have the nice advantage of having someone point to a vase and say "vase" or point to a fridge and say "fridge" or draw a picture of someone running and say "run". You don't have this with anime. Most of what is said does not apply to the pictures being shown on screen nor are they pointing to nouns or making pictures of verbs or adjectives and telling you what they are. Without independent study based on what you have seen in the anime, I would venture to say you only get a handful of vocab, very little if any grammar, and maybe a decent number of common phrases that you may or may not know the different subtle meanings to. Maybe I'm just thinking about this in the wrong way...anyone care to explain it to me from a different perspective?
I forgot to mention that watching anime nonstop without subs when you don't know what is being said is also a great way to ruin some good series, as well as it is very boring to just watch someone speaking nonsense all day that you don't understand :P
--- End quote ---
i completely agree with you anerph. there is no way.. without someone pointing out things or you being able to question them.. like saying 'how do you say' or 'what does this mean'.. full immersion where you're dropped into the place you will have a better chance, but you'll never understand a different language just listening to it 24 hours a day. do parrots understand their masters?.. i doubt it.
iindigo:
--- Quote from: virionspiral on May 28, 2009, 08:42:40 AM ---
--- Quote from: anerph on May 23, 2009, 12:01:14 AM ---
--- Quote from: yellowtable on May 22, 2009, 10:53:44 PM ---If you went all out, watching Japanese, unsubbed anime 24/7, then you could pick it up. After years, of course. However, most people don't spend anywhere this much time being immersed in Japanese, and using subs is basically the same as listening to english audio.
But if you do get a good feel for the grammar first, examining individual sentences, then watching unsubbed, jap audio anime really helps you.
--- End quote ---
I find that hard to believe...or at least, the first part you said. Imagine not knowing any English, being shoved into America, or more specifically, a small town in America where no one speaks any language that you understand. The only way they have to convey things to you is through body language and pictures (which was the first human language anyways). You would have the nice advantage of having someone point to a vase and say "vase" or point to a fridge and say "fridge" or draw a picture of someone running and say "run". You don't have this with anime. Most of what is said does not apply to the pictures being shown on screen nor are they pointing to nouns or making pictures of verbs or adjectives and telling you what they are. Without independent study based on what you have seen in the anime, I would venture to say you only get a handful of vocab, very little if any grammar, and maybe a decent number of common phrases that you may or may not know the different subtle meanings to. Maybe I'm just thinking about this in the wrong way...anyone care to explain it to me from a different perspective?
I forgot to mention that watching anime nonstop without subs when you don't know what is being said is also a great way to ruin some good series, as well as it is very boring to just watch someone speaking nonsense all day that you don't understand :P
--- End quote ---
i completely agree with you anerph. there is no way.. without someone pointing out things or you being able to question them.. like saying 'how do you say' or 'what does this mean'.. full immersion where you're dropped into the place you will have a better chance, but you'll never understand a different language just listening to it 24 hours a day. do parrots understand their masters?.. i doubt it.
--- End quote ---
Well no, you won't learn from immersion alone, but it certainly helps.
Also, there's a key difference between a parrot and a human: a human has a vastly larger amount of intelligence and most likely a decently-sized chunk of past knowledge backing him up, allowing him to grab definitions out of context and infer meanings based on other things.
virionspiral:
--- Quote from: iindigo on May 28, 2009, 10:12:21 AM ---
--- Quote from: virionspiral on May 28, 2009, 08:42:40 AM ---
--- Quote from: anerph on May 23, 2009, 12:01:14 AM ---
--- Quote from: yellowtable on May 22, 2009, 10:53:44 PM ---If you went all out, watching Japanese, unsubbed anime 24/7, then you could pick it up. After years, of course. However, most people don't spend anywhere this much time being immersed in Japanese, and using subs is basically the same as listening to english audio.
But if you do get a good feel for the grammar first, examining individual sentences, then watching unsubbed, jap audio anime really helps you.
--- End quote ---
I find that hard to believe...or at least, the first part you said. Imagine not knowing any English, being shoved into America, or more specifically, a small town in America where no one speaks any language that you understand. The only way they have to convey things to you is through body language and pictures (which was the first human language anyways). You would have the nice advantage of having someone point to a vase and say "vase" or point to a fridge and say "fridge" or draw a picture of someone running and say "run". You don't have this with anime. Most of what is said does not apply to the pictures being shown on screen nor are they pointing to nouns or making pictures of verbs or adjectives and telling you what they are. Without independent study based on what you have seen in the anime, I would venture to say you only get a handful of vocab, very little if any grammar, and maybe a decent number of common phrases that you may or may not know the different subtle meanings to. Maybe I'm just thinking about this in the wrong way...anyone care to explain it to me from a different perspective?
I forgot to mention that watching anime nonstop without subs when you don't know what is being said is also a great way to ruin some good series, as well as it is very boring to just watch someone speaking nonsense all day that you don't understand :P
--- End quote ---
i completely agree with you anerph. there is no way.. without someone pointing out things or you being able to question them.. like saying 'how do you say' or 'what does this mean'.. full immersion where you're dropped into the place you will have a better chance, but you'll never understand a different language just listening to it 24 hours a day. do parrots understand their masters?.. i doubt it.
--- End quote ---
Well no, you won't learn from immersion alone, but it certainly helps.
Also, there's a key difference between a parrot and a human: a human has a vastly larger amount of intelligence and most likely a decently-sized chunk of past knowledge backing him up, allowing him to grab definitions out of context and infer meanings based on other things.
--- End quote ---
true, yet if you don't know the language at all and are basically just hearing it, there is no way to gather it out of context.
either way combining every learning method together to match your particular learning style is the best.. i guess you could say i just started when i read through this thread last night.. i downloaded that slime forest and so far i have learned 150 kanji.. i can recognize, know the meaning and i have retained it after sleeping. so far this is pretty easy. i figure i'm going to learn the meaning of all the kanji i can then learn reading.. then learn pronunciation, and then speaking and grammar together.. that seems like the best way for me.. but hell, i just started in the last 24 hours so.
psyren:
--- Quote from: virionspiral on May 28, 2009, 11:22:45 AM ---so far i have learned 150 kanji.. i can recognize, know the meaning and i have retained it after sleeping. so far this is pretty easy.
--- End quote ---
I call bullshit on that.
You know 150 KANJI?
Tell me what 町 is, then.
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